Peer review process
Revised: This Reviewed Preprint has been revised by the authors in response to the previous round of peer review; the eLife assessment and the public reviews have been updated where necessary by the editors and peer reviewers.
Read more about eLife’s peer review process.Editors
- Reviewing EditorAdrien PeyracheMcGill University, Montreal, Canada
- Senior EditorMichael FrankBrown University, Providence, United States of America
Reviewer #1 (Public review):
Summary:
This paper investigates the neural population activity patterns of the medial frontal cortex in rats performing a nose poking timing task using in vivo calcium imaging. The results showed neurons that were active at the beginning and end of the nose poking and neurons that formed sequential patterns of activation that covaried with the timed interval during nose poking on a trial-by-trial basis. The former were not stable across sessions, while the latter tended to remain stable over weeks. The analysis of incorrect trials suggests the shorter non-rewarded intervals were due to errors in the scaling of the sequential pattern of activity.
Strengths:
This study measured stable signals using in vivo calcium imaging during experimental sessions that were separated by many days in animals performing a nose poking timing task. The correlation analysis on the activation profile to separate the cells in the three groups was effective and the functional dissociation between beginning and end, and duration cells was revealing. The analysis on the stability of decoding of both the nose poking state and poking time was very informative. Hence, this study dissected a neural population that formed sequential patterns of activation that encoded timed intervals.
Weaknesses:
It is not clear whether animals had enough simultaneously recorded cells to perform the analyzes of Figures 2-4. In fact, rat 3 had 18 responsive neurons which probably is not enough to get robust neural sequences for the trial-by-trial analysis and the correct and incorrect trial analysis. In addition, the analysis of behavioral errors could be improved. The analysis in Figure 4A could be replaced by a detailed analysis on the speed, and the geometry of neural population trajectories for correct and incorrect trials. In the case of Figure 4G is not clear why the density of errors formed two clusters instead of having a linear relation with the produce duration. I would be recommendable to compute the scaling factor on neuronal population trajectories and single cell activity or the computation of the center of mass to test the type III errors.
Due to the slow time resolution of calcium imaging, it is difficult to perform robust analysis on ramping activity. Therefore, I recommend downplaying the conclusion that: "Together, our data suggest that sequential activity might be a more relevant coding regime than the ramping activity in representing time under physiological conditions."
Comments on revisions:
The authors responded properly to my initial comments. However, I have three additional recommendations for the reviewed manuscript.
First, the paper urgently needs proofreading by a professional English editor. Second, Figure 4 must be divided in 2, it has too many panels and the resolution of the figure is low. Finally, please consider that what is called scaling factor in Figure 4G should be called something like neural sequence position index. A scaling factor in the timing literature implies that the pattern of activation of a cell contracts or expands according to the timed interval.
Reviewer #2 (Public review):
In this manuscript, Li and collaborators set out to investigate the neuronal mechanisms underlying "subjective time estimation" in rats. For this purpose, they conducted calcium imaging in the prefrontal cortex of water-restricted rats that were required to perform an action (nose-poking) for a short duration to obtain drops of water. The authors provided evidence that animals progressively improved in performing their task. They subsequently analyzed the calcium imaging activity of neurons and identify start, duration, and stop cells associated with the nose poke. Specifically, they focused on duration cells and demonstrated that these cells served as a good proxy for timing on a trial-by-trial basis, scaling their pattern of actvity in accordance with changes in behavioral performance. In summary, as stated in the title, the authors claim to provide mechanistic insights into subjective time estimation in rats, a function they deem important for various cognitive conditions.
This study aligns with a wide range of studies in system neuroscience that presume that rodents solve timing tasks through an explicit internal estimation of duration, underpinned by neuronal representations of time. Within this framework, the authors performed complex and challenging experiments, along with advanced data analysis, which undoubtedly merits acknowledgement. However, the question of time perception is a challenging one, and caution should be exercised when applying abstract ideas derived from human cognition to animals. Studying so-called time perception in rats has significant shortcomings because, whether acknowledged or not, rats do not passively estimate time in their heads. They are constantly in motion. Moreover, rats do not perform the task for the sake of estimating time but to obtain their rewards are they water restricted. Their behavior will therefore reflect their motivation and urgency to obtain rewards. Unfortunately, it appears that the authors are not aware of these shortcomings. These alternative processes (motivation, sensorimotor dynamics) that occur during task performance are likely to influence neuronal activity. Consequently, my review will be rather critical. It is not however intended to be dismissive. I acknowledge that the authors may have been influenced by numerous published studies that already draw similar conclusions. Unfortunately, all the data presented in this study can be explained without invoking the concept of time estimation. Therefore, I hope the authors will find my comments constructive and understand that as scientists, we cannot ignore alternative interpretations, even if they conflict with our a priori philosophical stance (e.g., duration can be explicitly estimated by reading neuronal representation of time) and anthropomorphic assumptions (e.g., rats estimate time as humans do). While space is limited in a review, if the authors are interested, they can refer to a lengthy review I recently published on this topic, which demonstrates that my criticism is supported by a wide range of timing experiments across species (Robbe, 2023). In addition to this major conceptual issue that casts doubt on most of the conclusions of the study, there are also several major statistical issues.
Main Concerns
(1) The authors used a task in which rats must poke for a minimal amount of time (300 ms and then 1500 ms) to be able to obtain a drop of water delivered a few centimeters right below the nosepoke. They claim that their task is a time estimation task. However, they forget that they work with thirsty rats that are eager to get water sooner than later (there is a reason why they start by a short duration!). This task is mainly probing the animals ability to wait (that is impulse control) rather than time estimation per se. Second, the task does not require to estimate precise time because there appear to be no penalties when the nosepokes are too short or when they exceed. So it will be unclear if the variation in nosepoke reflects motivational changes rather than time estimation changes. The fact that this behavioral task is a poor assay for time estimation and rather reflects impulse control is shown by the tendency of animals to perform nose-pokes that are too short, the very slow improvement in their performance (Figure 1, with most of the mice making short responses), and the huge variability. Not only do the behavioral data not support the claim of the authors in terms of what the animals are actually doing (estimating time), but this also completely annihilates the interpretation of the Ca++ imaging data, which can be explained by motivational factors (changes in neuronal activity occurring while the animals nose poke may reflect a growing sens of urgency to check if water is available).
(2) A second issue is that the authors seem to assume that rats are perfectly immobile and perform like some kind of robots that would initiate nose pokes, maintain them, and remove them in a very discretized manner. However, in this kind of task, rats are constantly moving from the reward magazine to the nose poke. They also move while nose-poking (either their body or their mouth), and when they come out of the nose poke, they immediately move toward the reward spout. Thus, there is a continuous stream of movements, including fidgeting, that will covary with timing. Numerous studies have shown that sensorimotor dynamics influence neural activity, even in the prefrontal cortex. Therefore, the authors cannot rule out that what the records reflect are movements (and the scaling of movement) rather than underlying processes of time estimation (some kind of timer). Concretely, start cells could represent the ending of the movement going from the water spout to the nosepoke, and end cells could be neurons that initiate (if one can really isolate any initiation, which I doubt) the movement from the nosepoke to the water spout. Duration cells could reflect fidgeting or orofacial movements combined with an increasing urgency to leave the nose pokes.
(3) The statistics should be rethought for both the behavioral and neuronal data. They should be conducted separately for all the rats, as there is likely interindividual variability in the impulsivity of the animals.
(4) The fact that neuronal activity reflects an integration of movement and motivational factors rather than some abstract timing appears to be well compatible with the analysis conducted on the error trials (Figure 4), considering that the sensorimotor and motivational dynamics will rescale with the durations of the nose poke.
(5) The authors should mention upfront in the main text (result section) the temporal resolution allowed by their Ca+ probe and discuss whether it is fast enough in regard of behavioral dynamics occurring in the task.
Comments on the revised version
I have read the revised version of the manuscript and the rebuttal letter. My major concern was that the task used is not a time estimation task but primarily taps into impulse control and that animals are not immobile during the nose-poking epoch. I provided factual evidence for this (the animal's timing performance is poor and, on average, animals struggle to wait long enough), and I pointed to a review that discusses the results of many studies congruent with the importance of movement/motivation, not only in constraining the timing of reward-oriented actions during so-called time estimation tasks but also in powerfully modulating neuronal activity.
The authors' responses to my comments are puzzling and unconvincing. First, on the one hand, they acknowledge in their rebuttal letter the difficulty of demonstrating a neuronal representation of explicit internal estimation of time. Then, they seem to imply that this issue is beyond the scope of their study and focus in the rebuttal on whether the neuronal activity they report shows signs of being sensitive to movement and motivation, which they claim is independent of movement and motivation. This leads the authors to make no major changes in their manuscript. Their title, abstract, introduction, and discussion are largely unchanged and do not reflect the possibility that there are major confounding factors in so-called time estimation (rodents are not disembodied passive information processors) that may well explain some of the neuronal patterns. Evidently, the dismissive treatment by the authors is not satisfying. I will briefly restate my comments and reply to their responses and their new figure, which not only is unconvincing but raises new questions.
My comments were primarily focused on the behavioral task. The authors replied: "Studying the neural representation of any internal state may suffer from the same ambiguity [by ambiguity they meant that it is difficult to know if animals are explicitly estimating time]. With all due respect, however, we would like to limit our response to the scope of our results. According to the reviewer, two alternative interpretations of the task-related sequential activity exist." The authors imply that my comments are beyond the scope of their study. That is not true. My comments were targeted at the behavior of the animals, behavior they rely on to title their study: "Stable sequential dynamics in prefrontal cortex represents a subjective estimation of time." When I question whether the task and behavioral data presented are congruent with "subjective estimation of time," my comments are not beyond the scope of the study-they directly tackle the main point of the authors. Other researchers will read the title and abstract of this manuscript and conclude: "Here is a paper that provides evidence of a mechanism for animals estimating duration internally (because subjective time perception is assumed to be different from using clocks)." Still, there is a large body of literature showing that the behavior of animals in such tasks can be entirely explained without invoking subjective time perception and internal representation. How can the authors acknowledge that they can't be sure that mice are estimating time and then have such an affirmative title and abstract?
In my opinion, science is not just about forcing ideas (often reflecting philosophical preconceptions) on data and dismissing those who disagree. It is about discussing alternative possibilities fairly and being humble. In their revised version, I see no effort by the authors to investigate the importance of movement and motivation during their task or seriously engage with this idea. It's much easier to dismiss my comments as being beyond the scope of their results. According to the authors, it seems that movements and motivations play no role in the task. Still, the animals are water-restricted, and during the task, they will display decreased motivation (due to increased satiety), and their history of rewarded vs. non-rewarded trials will affect their behavior. This is one of the most robust effects seen across all behavioral studies. Moreover, the animals are constantly moving. Maybe the authors used a special breed of mice that behave like some kind of robots? I acknowledge that this is not easy to investigate, but if the authors did not use high-quality video recording or an experimental paradigm that allows disentangling motivational confounds, then they should refrain from using big words such as subjective time estimation and discuss alternative representations by acknowledging the studies that do find that movement and motivation are present during reward-based timing tasks and do in fact modulate neuronal activity, even in associative brain regions.
To sustain their claim that what they reported is movement-independent, the authors provided a supplementary figure in which they correlated neuronal activity and head movement tracked using DeepLabCut. I have to say that I was particularly surprised by this figure. First, in the original manuscript, there was absolutely no mention of video recording. Now it appears in the methods section, but the description is very short. There is no information on how these video recordings were made. The quality of the images provided in Figure S2 is far from reassuring. It is unclear whether the temporal and spatial resolution would be good enough to make meaningful correlations. Fast head/orofacial movements that occur during nose-poking can be on the order of 20 Hz. To be tracked, this would require at least a 40 Hz sampling rate. But no sampling information is provided. The authors should explain how they synchronized behavioral and neuronal data acquisition. Could the authors share behavioral videos of the 5 sessions shown in Figure S2 so we can judge the behavior of the animals, the quality of the video, and the possibility of making correlations?
Figure S2A-F: I am not sure why the authors correlated nose-poking duration (time estimation) and the duration between upper and lower nose-pokes (reward-oriented movement). It is not relevant to the issue I raised. Without any information about video acquisition frame rate, the y-axis legend (frame) is not very informative. Still, in Figure S2A-F, Rat 5 shows a clear increase in nose-poke duration, which is congruent with decreased impulsivity. Is the time coding different in this rat compared to other rats? There are some similar trends in other animals (Rat 1 and maybe Rat 3), but what is surprising is the huge variability (big downward deflections in the nose-poke duration). I would not be surprised if those deflections occurred after a long pause in activity. Could the authors plot trial time instead of trial number? How do the authors explain such a huge deflection if the animals are estimating time?
Regarding Figure S2H: I don't see how it addresses my concern. My concern is that some of the Ca activity recorded during nose-poking reflects head movements. The authors need to show if they can detect head movement during nose-poking. Aligning the Ca data relative to head movement should give the same result as when aligning the data relative to the time at which the animals pull out of the upper nose-poke.
Minor comments:
In their introduction, the authors wrote: "While these findings [correlates of time perception] provide strong evidence for a neural mechanism of time coding in the brain, true causal evidence at single-cell resolution remains beyond reach due to technical limitations. Although inhibiting certain brain regions (such as medial prefrontal cortex, mPFC,22) led to disruption in the performance of the timing task, it is difficult to attribute the effect specifically to the ramping or sequential activity patterns seen in those regions as other processes may be involved. Lacking direct experimental evidence, one potential way of testing the causal involvement of 'time codes' in time estimation function is to examine their correlation at a finer resolution."
This statement is inaccurate at two levels. First, very good causal evidence has been obtained on this topic (see Monteiro et al., 2023, Nature Neuroscience), and see my News & Views on the strengths and weaknesses of this paper. Second, their proposal is inaccurate. Looking at a finer correlation will still be a correlative approach, and the authors will not be able to disentangle motor/motivation confounds.